eSnips Forums

Pigment says: (http://esnips.com/user/Pigment)

Dear All

Painting is still a challenge, more than ever in our current age of digital technology. Despite all death sentences the painter still paints though and I’d like to reflect on painting’s unquestionable survival and solid position as a contemporary visual art practice. Periodically artists textually and contextually expanded the notion of a painting and the canvas continually leads the way for painters. We find ourselves more absorbed than ever in a fast digital age. In spite of everything the painter always conquers a two-dimensional space. Invention of technological tools for representation affect the way the world is seen, how events are interpreted, and the way culture is formed. Science or technological advances inform powerfully our knowledge base and affect all the premises of life, altering the way we see and think. Technological development and artistic confrontation have always been closely related in one way or another. They affect the content, philosophy, and style of artworks. The painter only has got himself to start with, and than the canvas surface.For that reason I like to suggest that painting can be more than paint on a surface plane and hope to shed some new light on what painting can do and cannot do to exist.

We all paint - what are your thoughts on this subject?

Lonnie

I agree with what you say.

The mentioned absorbtion into the fast digital age will have influence on the arts, as the mass media and internet access dictate social standards and combine cultures from around the world into a new melting pot.

Changes in technology and the availability of internet to general public offers artists an alternative to elitist and commercially opperated art gallery systems of the past. But it also offers a much larger pond to survive in than previously encounted, along with many new problems.

To be a true artist is to express concepts that will evoke intellectual thought and/or posible emotional responses from viewers. These can range from confrontational and challenging to aestetically pleasing and comforting. I think for an artist to survive in a digital world needs to retain genuine opinion as well as personal and cultural identity which could very easily be lost within the huge influence of mass media and internet.

Quote: "The painter only has got himself to start with, and than the canvas surface."
Between the stage of self and canvas surface is the realisation of identity, experiences, beleifs, environment, passions and influences which the artist can draw apon to communicate.

...Di

How do you reconcile the huge conflict between painting in contemporary galleries, and painting as a commuicative art?
If art is communication, then what is someone trying to say when they create a work that will be "appreciated" by a tiny audience?

Lonnie

This an obvious problem for an artist who wishes to reach the largest audience possible. Who has what they believe to be an important message. An artist who has a non- elitist view of what art should be. There is now a possible solution to this problem though the solution creates problems of its own.

An artist’s potential exposure to large audience is relatively new.
The availability of personal space and places similar to esnips assist in the non-elitist attitude of distribution of original creative expression (whether in visual, music or literature) to a wider audience.

The Traditional gallery system for visual art offers appropriate physical space, lighting, security, promotion, audience, advertising and so on.....
To exhibit work without that system took hard work, money and time, as well as marketing and business skills. Not all easy to achieve when you are full time artist.

Galleries which are commercial exist for the purpose of making money. They are firstly a business. Many traditional artists would prefer alternative but it takes time to change traditions and it takes courage and confidence to break from what is proven as working and acceptable. Just because you can paint doesn’t mean you have the skills to handle all other aspects. There is a slow change occurring, galleries are including digital media within exhibitions, and artists are making use of an arm-chair audience of the net.

To show your work to a world-wide audience on the Internet is an appealing alternative to small gallery showing, but it has problems. Theft of intellectual property is a major concern. Displaying quality representations of work without them being stolen becomes an issue when, unlike the local shopping centre, all of your stock is virtual rather than physical and at the press of a few buttons physical copies can be made and distributed without your knowledge. For most hobby painters this is flattering, but when it represents your livelihood and years of dedicated work it is a very different matter.

I think all artist would love a huge audience that appreciates their work.

I think some works do not translate well over the net, and poor representation of work is worse that none.

I think artists need to also become even more business wise to break from gallery system.

The idea of "artist" is becoming diluted, with more and more people claiming the title. A nurse wouldn’t claim to be a doctor and run her own practice performing surgery on the premises, but more and more untrained people claim the title artist. I think the gallery system although restricting, ensured a level of craftsmanship and creativity (to preserve its own name if nothing else). To self sensor work is an important skill, often difficult for artists. Availability of space on the net allows temptation to include lesser work within a portfolio. Not necessarily a good thing.

hhmmmm anyway they are our thoughts.
Feel free to voice opinion and disagree

Di and Bob (Hexagonal Mandala)

"what is someone trying to say when they create a work that will be "appreciated" by a tiny audience?"
That someone is asking for more than an estetic opinion on his work. That he is looking to share his work with people who have more tools to criticise his work. Art should not arouse the question "will it be nice hanging in my living room?" it should arouse questions about perception.
Cubisem for example, is a way of observing the world. It changed and it evolved from other methods of art, it was influenced by other ways of thinking, by psychology by philosophy, and unfortunately not everyone has the knowledge that will help them judge the painting by more than its estetic value.

nicely worded!

The painter in a virtual world:

Wow, I am intrigued by all your strong thoughts. To push this argument further I have now an exhibition in second life. www.secondlife.com.

SIM 2.0 Art Gallery - Free Space, SINNIQ SIM 01 (177, 21, 126)

In this new amazing world there are many, many art exhibitions, talks and creative groups.

Come and visit!

Pigment

VMOA, VMOA (150, 75, 27)

Library Gallery, Info Island (17, 111, 34)

Wildman Galleries, Promissa (232, 198, 23)

Virtual Starry Night - Vincent's, Luctesa (50, 210, 66)

Muzza Gallery, Chrysanthemum Island (45, 46, 316)

idearium, IDEARIUM (71, 155, 25)

. GHava{SL} Center for the A, Haenim (9, 87, 550)

Snafu (M) ML, Snafu (212, 71, 601)

Hmm. I seem to have an isue with using the word "should" along with anything connectd to art .......i realise that there are tools for creating somehing beautiful; perspective, composition, shade, line, color and so on.....so why this knee-jerk reaction to thinking about rules in relation to art? Perhaps because modern art was always used to go against a status quo or establishment....
And now saying that established rules must constrain the worth of a work automatically lets out a whiff of the same anarchy that created dada, pop art, cubism etc.....

Lonnie

Art for art's sake!!!!

Lonnie I’m not sure what this last provocation of yours is driving at.

Doesn’t seem to relate to what was discussed above.

I reread and did not find any great push for "should" rules.

Can you please restate.

I'll answer in short though.

An artist should know the rules of his trade.
An artist should know the rules of his society.
An artist should know the rules of his subject.
Whether it be environmental, psychological, scientific, or just the human condition in general.

Then the artist has a solemn and sacred duty to break all rules to communicate radical ideas that question aspects of the status quo.

Bob

PS This is my own provocation. Grin!

shahar wrote:

"what is someone trying to say when they create a work that will be "appreciated" by a tiny audience?"
... Art should not arouse the question "will it be nice hanging in my living room?" it should arouse questions about perception.
..... and unfortunately not everyone has the knowledge that will help them judge the painting by more than its estetic value.

i will explain - it was a bit cryptic.

for the "Should" - see above.
the knee jerk reaction was my own, my own amusement towards my response. while i dont agree with the above quote necessarily, i realise there are -call them what you will- artistic differences between a painting done by my 5 year old nephew, and one done by Rothko.
And still , i get riled when the sentence "Art....Should be..." floats by.

I agree with what you wrote, its great! but i also think there is room for naive or outsider art to be called art, even on its own, and not in relation to mainstream art! (if there wasnt mainstream art, there wouldnt be outsider art) does it make it less artistic or conveying of commentary just because the artist isnt even aware of the possibility of art as commentary? i dont think so.

Lonnie

OK Lonnie you have provoked me to get serious with this discussion.

The following is an article I am writing for our site "The house of the Hexagonal Mandala" which I hope to have finished in the next six months. It represents 30 years of my dreaming and doing, and 20 years of Di’s.

This article is still less even than a draft but should give a solid outline of its direction. You are welcomed to critique it as hard as possible or add your own ideas to the pot. All critique will be given serious consideration but not necessarily acted upon. If you have ideas of important issues not represented here or opinions that I have not considered I would greatly appreciate hearing them.

NOTE:- That not all Headings and subheadings have yet been expanded, and possibly more could be added.

NOTE:- The triangle analysis referred to below is a system of logic that I am trying to develop in a reaction to Aristotelian Logic which is constructed around sets of opposites. Dichotomies! Which as a computer programmer I work with constantly in the form of Boolean logic.

My form of triangular logic can be diagrammed in the form of a hexagonal. Hence the first part of the name of our site. A Mandala is a circular image with spiritual or healing powers through the concept of architypical symbolism. Hence the second part of our sites name. Therefore a very descriptive title for what Di and I are on about as artists.

INHERENT NATURE of the VISUAL ARTS

The visual arts are definitely a form of communication. The success of that communication depends entirely on the depth of understanding by the artist of his language and the depth of understanding by his audience. This is not saying that the work has to be philosophically deep just that the level of understanding has to be approximately the same. A Japanese speaker can not successfully communicate with a Swahili Speaker. An artist has the duty to strive to achieve a full depth of mastery within his craft. Equally his audience has a duty to strive to achieve more than a shallow comprehension. So that the communication becomes meaningful and not banal. What must be understood is the level at which the artist is operating is always higher than the intended audience. The skills that an artist employs to achieve the desired communication must transcend the audience. If the audience is at the same level as the artist then little purpose is achieved except mutual admiration. The audience must though put in an effort and the higher the standard of the art work the more effort that must be applied. Appreciation of art does not make an artist. This begs many questions to which an attempt will be made to answer.

TRIANGULAR ANALYSIS… Yet to be written. This is a system of analysis which will be defined here.

WHAT MAKES AN ARTIST. This is a question that was debated in many different ways throughout the 20th century. Each movement in art was a reaction to or against an earlier movement. Modernism was questioned by Post-Modernism. The issue settles to a very simple dichotomy, is the title artist earned by a mastery of the triangle of points below or is it simply a matter of making conscious claim to the title of artist.
In fact the truth is probably a blend of both sides in this debate. Agreed standard or Body of work.

____ SKILL or CRAFTSMANSHIP This is such an obvious point to most people that the real issue is missed. If an image is considered fully grasped in an instance glance then the level of skill involved is very much suspect. An artist skill and craftsmanship starts at the level of relationship with the subject or idea being presented, being able to see a reality or relationship that is worthy of communications and then finding suitable forms of expression to allow this communication with others. The control of the chosen form (materials/media) is important as is structure of a written language. The manipulation of chosen media becomes the sole vehicle through which an artist communicates, and its strength of control enables the artist to provoking response in the audience.

____ CONCEPTUAL DEPTH This is fundamentally the depth of thought that has preceded the execution of a work of art.
________ ARTISTS STATEMENT Should be a sign post pointing to the approach that the audience must show in pursuit of a depth of understanding about the work.
________ BODY of WORK The individual art work gains strength and credit by existing within a body of related works. The exploration of a subject, both the emotional and conceptual elements, along with chosen media thus formal elements, is only demonstrated by a consist and mature presentation through a body of work.
________ PROGRESSION The progression that the artist makes as they grow in their craft. The maturing, refining and even possible redirection of subject as the artist explores and expresses the essence, opinions and even the aesthetics of their subject.

____ LIFE MATURITY The two aspects above can not be achieved without experience. This is why it is usually a very simple task to pick a students work.

WHAT MAKES AN ART WORK

____ ARTIST’S INTENT This is the subject matter to be communicated by the artist.
________ INFORM This is what the artist intends to communicate with his audience.
____________ EDUCATION
____________ NARRATION
____________ EXPLORATION
________ EXPRESS
____________ EMOTION
____________ SENSATION The pure form of this aspect of artist expression has gained a very descriptive tag in the computer generated imagery world. Eye Candy.
____________ INSPIRATION At its base level this can be simply propaganda and is especially evident in the creative efforts of the contemporary advertising industry.
________ FOCUS There are different types of focus - A physical focus would likely result in figurative work. Whereas metaphysical focus would incline the work to be abstract. Therefor the old dichotomies will have to be resurrected. Though it is possible to use Fuzzy Logic and therefor create a sliding scale between the two extremes.
____________ CONCRETE or SYMBOLIC
____________ RATIONAL or IRRATIONAL
____________ ACTUAL or MYSTIC

AESTHETICS Traditionally Aesthetics is the philosophy of visually portrayed beauty but it is more than simply this. In a way aesthetic success in an image conveys an awareness in it’s audience of "rightness". This sense of "rightness" is in part simple pattern recognition. Most human beings can read. Yet reading is not executed letter by letter or even syllable by syllable. Rather it is accomplished by the innate pattern recognition hard wired into the human brain. Also this "rightness" is a harmony with the architypical symbolist nature of our unconscious. This of course is overlaid by a heavy blanket of cultural expectation which is probably the duty of an artist to rip asunder. So "rightness" can be related to Jung’s idea of painting mandalas to achieve psychological understanding and health.
________ PERCEPTION Is the action of our senses in gathering data from the outside world. All sense data is interpreted by the mind. This fact has caused philosophers to debate the nature of reality for centuries. Or to quote my wife "Reality only exists as a state of mind."
____________ SENSUOUS
____________ INTUITIVE
____________ GESTALT
________ ANALYSIS
____________ EMOTIONAL
____________ CONCEPTUAL
____________ ARCHETYPAL or SYMBOLIC
________ RESPONSE
____________ POSITIVE
____________ NEGATIVE
____________ ACCEPTANCE

____ FORMAL ELEMENTS
________ COMPOSITION
____________ ORGANISATIONAL
____________ RELATIONAL
____________ CONTINUUM This word is used in the same sense as space time continuum
________ SURFACE
____________ COLOUR and TEXTURE
____________ SHAPE or FORM
____________ MOVEMENT
________ ILLUSION Art is always a metaphor for real world situations. All Art is a abstraction of the real world. Art focus’ attention on one aspect while the rest is given minimal attention.
____________ OBJECTIVE
____________ SUBJECTIVE
____________ TRANSCENDENTAL

Anyhow have fun. Bob

PS It is a totally original draft and is copyright material belonging to "RB & DA Mathews Soft Solutions" so please do not quote from it outside of this e-snips thread.

© RB & DA Mathews Soft Solutions - Hexagonal Mandala 2005 - All Rights Reserved.<BR>
This includes all Text and Images created by Hexagonal Mandala.<BR>
The author’s, RB & DA Mathews Soft Solutions - Hexagonal Mandala, right to be identified has been asserted.

i find all this topical stuff a bit boring weres the paintersin here ,,,

from time to time i use the pentablet and i experiment with programs. for myself as being an artist is not raising as much money as i can or to get immensely popular. i devote my work mostly to myself and my enviroment. ask urself why u make a painting or even make art for money or big bucks? maybe u want to grow in ur life. experience that lust or twirl on paper? we all have different reasons.

when i look at a painting i don't have to think much. maybe most of them let me see how creative ppl can be. this is something that really interests me. what do u do with that pen/keyboard/camera/brush? maybe it is just nice to see and maybe i might just come back for more. i think showing ur pictures of art is one of the more social things a person can do.

be honest..one picture says more then thousand words and even when this is not true it for sure would be something nice to look @ from time to time.

besides music i make paintings. below is my esnips adresse should u be interested.
http://esnips.com/web/paintings123

below is some of my work with the pentablet and digital cam combined:

and these r some examples. i'm 28 from holland: