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Norbeone wrote:

Unfortunately, no evidence for any such Gods exist, therefore propogating one is irrational.

I must beg to differ.If you'll walk outside on a clear night and look around, beneath you, around you, over you, gaze into the sky and recall all that science has taught you exists out there... Ask yourself a question: Where did all this come from?

Everything basic was created. Nothing comes from nothing. Evolution could not even be a theory had not the basics been created. Nothing comes from nothing...unless something has been created from nothing.

That is the case for all that exists. Something... everything, was created from nothing. In whatever you choose to observe, go back into time to the place before it ever existed, for nothing can come from nothing... and ask yourself, "How did this get here"? THAT, is where you'll find your evidence of God.

And He's still here.

Matt wrote:

Norbeone wrote:

Unfortunately, no evidence for any such Gods exist, therefore propogating one is irrational.

I must beg to differ.If you'll walk outside on a clear night and look around, beneath you, around you, over you, gaze into the sky and recall all that science has taught you exists out there... Ask yourself a question: Where did all this come from?

Everything basic was created. Nothing comes from nothing. Evolution could not even be a theory had not the basics been created. Nothing comes from nothing...unless something has been created from nothing.

That is the case for all that exists. Something... everything, was created from nothing. In whatever you choose to observe, go back into time to the place before it ever existed, for nothing can come from nothing... and ask yourself, "How did this get here"? THAT, is where you'll find your evidence of God.

And He's still here.

And when you ask, "Who made god, and where did his creator come from..." you find that god is NOT an answer.. just a Russian Egg. You are wrong about the idea that nothing comes from nothing. Just the opposite. Once you get over that hurdle, you'll be closer to the facts. The original nothing, is only made manifest by there being a something to contrast and define itself by. One cannot have something without a nothing as well, and vice verse. I'll agree with you only in so much as what you call god is in fact nothing, and it did bring us to this point.

BTW, just looking up in the sky and being filled with wonder is NOT proof of anything except ones own psyche. I take it you are not a physicist or intellectual. Go visit CERN and get a grip on hidden reality. Also, facts are not democratic concensus, and the mob is usually wrong on scientific fact, and the churchs/religious have ALWAYS been wrong on facts no matter how much Truth they preach.. I say Nothing is greater than god. Nothing came before god. Nothing created god. Without god, there is Nothing. Nothing IS greater than any/every god people have dreampt up looking at the sky... I also know for fact that people who are believers are dangerous and responsible for 90% of the world's misery, and 100% of the world's "self-proclaimed" know-it-alls.

Tiger wrote:

I say Nothing is greater than god. Nothing came before god. Nothing created god. Without god, there is Nothing. Nothing IS greater than any/every god people have dreampt up looking at the sky... I also know for fact that people who are believers are dangerous and responsible for 90% of the world's misery, and 100% of the world's "self-proclaimed" know-it-alls.

Tiger? I can well understand the devices of the enEmy, and how the battles between good and evil have hurt you. I recognize how the world seeks to take, and take, and take, and hurt, and hurt and hurt... and after it's done? It'll leave a person for dead with not the first qualm. All this world wants from you or anyone else is to simply take from you anything you have of value, then it doesn't care what happens to you.

In your case? It has left you with "Nothing". It sought to do the same thing with me, my brother. It almost succeeded too.

All I can do is tell you there is more in this world than "religion". I agree with you that there has been much done in the past in the name of "religion" that has served to do no more than hurt a world looking for True Love... Religion has killed more peoples souls than maybe any other device by the enEmy...

But there is One... just One... within all the expanse we've talked about here, that loves you far more than words could ever say, my brother. In your dis-belief, you are honest. I tell you now in honesty, there is One that wishes to know you. He gave Himself for you in ways you have not realized. With Him? It's about a "relationship" and the reality of Who He is, not who some people say He is... but who He really is, and what He offers you is beyond your wildest imaginations... And I'm not just talking about fire insurance... I'm talking about a life so full of purpose that it can put that heart of yours to real use before your time here is through...

But in all that things are or aren't, He just wants to love ya Tiger. He does love ya... He just wants a relationship... Then all else will simply be what it is...

Should you decide to remain in your conclusions, that is your choice. But if at any time you'd like to discuss the possibilities of a God that loved you so much that He took God's wrath for YOUR sins, as well as mine, even while we were yet enemies of God (it's already been done), then I'd be more than happy to talk to you about it... You see? That's what a "relationship" is all about.

The world would be much better off to "forget religion". But then? The enEmy wouldn't have near as much to deceive people with, would he?

I'm here bro. Please. Give me a yell.
Matt

Q : Where did all this come from?

A : God created all of this.

have you ever think that his answer is too simple?

everything we can't explain we say : "It's God's work". By this answer, we are "escaping" from such Questions, we are "not answering" the question.

why do we say, something ...everything was created from nothing?

Because we did not exist at that time. There might be life exist somewhere, but we can't saw it, we can't feel it, because we didn't exist before, so we saw nothing because we did not exist ourselfs.

and........evolution does not applied to human
the theory of evolution is changed. Its called "replacement theory". We don't use evolution theory anymore.

anyway everything is just a theory.
Big Bang or the birth of the universe is a theory, Relativity is a theory, earth as the center of the universe was a theory (and prooved wrong), law of gravity is a theory (and we still use it), mankind was created by "Him" that can forgive our sins is a theory.

do you believe in the theory or not it's your choice.

Mechanoid Angelwing wrote:

Q : Where did all this come from?

A : God created all of this.

have you ever think that his answer is too simple?

I've thought of it a few different ways, but there's no way to look at all of creation as "simple". Quite the contrary. The expanse of all that we can see is testimony to the size, power and intelligence of God.

Mechanoid Angelwing wrote:

do you believe in the theory or not it's your choice.

That kinda hits the nail on the head, MA. It's all about what "you" decide to believe in. Every man is given a measure of faith in God. You can either live by it? Or ignore it. The choice truly is yours to make.

quote :

"It is Man's destiny to create more and more believable Gods in whom he'll believe less and less"

Jean Rostand

Mechanoid Angelwing wrote:

quote :

"It is Man's destiny to create more and more believable Gods in whom he'll believe less and less"

Jean Rostand

Brilliant! Hurray Jean Rostand!

And who, exactly, made that feller the supreme "wise" man?

If you wish to believe in God or not, is your choice. Period.

To knock, call names, run down, criticize others, for their belief system.. ain't cool, nor smart.

I choose to believe. With many reasons backing my choice. I don't care to discuss MY reasons for KNOWING. None of your business, anyway.

But... until "science"... and I have to use that term very loosely... proves that their Big Bang theory has nothing to do with my God creating something from nothing, I will continue to believe. Nobody will change that, with any human "logic".. and in most cases I've read above... the logic continues to be only opinion, rather than fact.

A huge explosion, caused by "nothing", is impossible. But with God, all things are possible.

Dale wrote:

A huge explosion, caused by "nothing", is impossible. But with God, all things are possible.

and ....

where did god came from?

or...

if scientists asked about the "Birth of the Universe", now I ask about "The Birth of GOD"

Mechanoid Angelwing... its great to have a voice on this topic from someone from a culture that isn't jewish or christian or muslim (as if there is a difference between them, HA!) I think that by standing outside the forest you can see the trees much better. Your dispassionate and relevant responces are well taken.. at least by me.

As for scientific theory, remember that skepticism is the mother of science.

hmmm.... I don't know how to say it, but ....

I am a Catholic ... but I try to see everything not just from the inside, but also from the outside to have a better understanding about what we've been through.

it's like.....

"We know so much about the earth, we admire her beauty, but we don't even now her face. So the scientists decided to go to space, and they got a better understanding not just about the earth but also about the other planets, about our solar system, even about the universe."

I believe in HER.

who says: GOD is ONE then ?????????/

Hi everyone,

TO BE OR NOT TO BE, THAT IS THE QUESTION?????
Conflict is a part of human structure, and there is no end to the feeling of “TO BE OR NOT TO BE”. Its only through this confusion that there can never be any growth and any advancement . We all know there is conflict at every level of our existence, so why deny or be blind to it.
Ambitions and conflicts are the ways of man and they can be used either against him or for him.
Conflict is the struggle between two opposing ideas- there is a class conflict, national conflict and ideological conflict. Due to the resistance of certain fundamental facts and ignorance, there is problem of RIGHT and WRONG.
For example ---- There is a process of thought in every Human mind, where the future is IMAGINARY, and an IDEAL. Its only a projection, and thought is always the response of MEMORY, of conditioning. It is really a vicious circle with no way out. This conflict , this struggle within the CAGE OF THOUGHT , is what you call PROGRESS. If you really wish to revolutionize and bring about progress in society, it should be beyond CONFLICT, which is not based on THOUGHT with its EGO made projections, IDEALS and DOGMAS. Our efforts to CO OPERATE have not brought about any solution to this problem.
The question is WHAT IS THE EFFORT????
Effort is to strive for MONEY and POSITION and have WON both. WE have also striven to have happy family, but in VAIN, so we are struggling for something deeper. So effort becomes an endless battle to acquire. If the end is hAPPINESS , means also should be happy. IS NOT THE HAPPY MEANS HAPPY END.IF effort produces OPPOSITION within and without, can EFFORT lead to HAPPINESS????
IF EFFORT produces MORE problems and more TENSIONS and STRESS , why are we still making the EFFORT???? What are we looking for in LIFE?? One attains wealth and POSITION to be POWEFUL in various ways. TO be POWERFUL is to DOMINATE, SUPPRESS, to feel SUPERIOR , to be EFFICIENT and so on. YOU are satisfied in one level, you move to another.
There is no end to CONFLICT, as there is no end to DESIRES. We are actually searching for MISERY. WE keep gathering things without looking into refinement of our sensations. WE cover up our EMPTINESS. One great Philosopher said “ our minds are like hollow drums beaten upon by every passing hand and making lot of noise”. We are never ALONE, we are always with a problem, with a book,( BETTER QURAN) with a person , or with our THOUGHTS ( SONCH ACHI YABURI).Allconflicts must CEASE, so that the TRANQUIL( peace- sakinah) mind can see the TRUTH that PERVADES this UNIVERSE. Either be LIFE or DEATH.
__________________
Moosa

The Wounds of a sword may heal one day, but the wounds of the tongue -
they never may.

USE....THIS......IN......LIFE

Talk---------------------SOFTLY
Walk---------------------HUMBLY
Eat------------------------SENSIBLY
Breathe----------------------DEEPLY
Sleep------------------------------SUFFICIENTLY
Dress-------------------------------SMARTLY
Act--------------------------------FEARLESSLY
Work------------------------------------------------PATIENTLY
Think-----------------------------------------TRUTHFULLY
Believe---------------------------------------CORRECTLY
Behave-------------------------------------DECENTLY
Learn-----------------------------------------PRACTICALLY
Plan----------------------------------------ORDERLY
Earn------------------------------------------HONESTLY
Save----------------------------------------REGULARLY
Spend--------------------------------------INTELLIGENTLY
Love-----------------------------------PASSIONATELY

ENJOY---------------------------------------COMPLETELY